Air To Air Heat Pumps: Are We Wrong? | A Chat With An Expert
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- Were we wrong about air to air heat pumps? In this video, Richard Clarke sets the record straight.
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#heatpump #renewableenergy #air2air #airtoair
Air to air is standard over here in Norway, the can heat, cool, dry and remove particulates... they only cost £2 - 3k, installed! ... scop of around 5 or 6! it's a no brainer
Well said Robin, it's common sense isn't it? I simply don't understand why the UK is so resistant to this technology, which is proven over many decades in climates much colder than the UK.
It is not the same climate, Uk and NL are kuch more humid outside in winter. Zo defrosting plays a bigger role.
So is air to air the norm in nordic countries? The British media make out that everyone has heat pumps in nordic countries, implying they are all air to water heat pumps.
@@TeaBreak. the guy lives there, he should know
@@vriesvakkie1 there are always excuses, the real issue is the the UK Gov did not include A2A heat pumps in the Renewable Heat Incentive, so nobody offered them
@Heat Geek 54:33 you ask what is the best SCOP for air to air unit. I live in Finland that is very cold Nordic country. My house heats with two air-to-air heat pumps that are from Panasonic. The bigger one in downstairs is rated SCOP 6.2 W/W. This is also verified in Danish laboratory. The pump is rated for -35 celsius. Model is Panasonic VZ9SKE.
Bravo Adam and Richard! Great to see a discussion of mini-splits in the UK market. Look forward to more videos on the topic.
You seen inverter now channel on RUclips. Amazing channel on vrf etc. Very well explained.
@@richardc1983 can't find this channel you speak of?
@@CamTracey think he took his channel down
FINALLY, we are getting some serious discussion on A2A systems in the UK. It's ridiculous that we are so far behind the curve on this technology for home heating / cooling, it's been widely used for decades in the UK in office and commercial buildings, if it works there, why won't it work in homes? It's also widespread in Europe, Asia and America, so why are we even questioning the viability of these systems? We have a home in Corfu where we have mini split units in each room, it's used for cooling in the Summer and heating in the cold weather (yes, Corfu does get cold and also very damp). It works very well and is far more efficient than our air to water heat pump that we have in our UK house.
We've had heat pumps in our homes for years in the form of a fridge/freezer, it;s not new, the only bit that is newish is the inverter!
One word: Insulation.
So many houses need massive insulation improvements before a total heating retrofit would be viable. UK houses leak heat more compared to other countries and our solution is just to keep chucking massive amounts of radiant heat out at once by burning gas. You lose all that heat quite quickly but radiators get hot enough that it's maybe not noticeable.
I really really want to move away from gas, but I don't feel like my house is energy efficient enough to benefit from one yet. Especially air to air (which I'd prefer because of the benefits of cooling).
@@Jmcinally94 Provided you size your air con unit to the load requirements. e.g if heat loss is 5kw then you need a 5kw unit to produce that heat. The fact the air isn't has hot as perhaps your radiators are now makes no difference. Size correctly and it will be fine. I have a summerhouse with a unit inside, it's not particularly well insulated certainly not like the house and the unit is sized to heat and cool the space! It's actually the easiest room to heat.
@@Jmcinally94 Absolute bollocks.
I got air to air for our UK home this year. 5 units. It’s a Daikin. We use it for all our heating requirements and it is fantastic. “Indoor quiet” mode limits the fan speed and “demand control” limits the power consumption. Comfort wise I don’t feel any disadvantage compared to radiators. I admit a old fashioned log fire is very cosy and has it’s charm, but my system is super efficient and has drastically reduced our carbon output, (as any heat pump will do when compared with typical gas central heating). There is room for improvement with control and automation. The app I use from Daikin is slightly buggy and quirky so requires more user intervention than it needs to. But fundamentally air to air should be part of the mix to get the UK away from gas boilers.
I'd be interested to know the sort of properties folks are installing their A2A systems in. I can only imagine a modern (i.e. 70's onwards) sized home might have the space or construction that would suit A2A. Richard's self-designed system at home would be fascinating to see. I live in a small victorian terraced property and as Adam asked, are we looking at a nightmare of ducting or installation for millions of homes which are now at least 100+yrs old? For those of us wanting to de-carbonise it's still a minefield to understand the best value and best-suited options for the age of the house. The more you learn about the subject the more confusing it becomes.
@@richardhanmer we have a 1980’s 4 bed detached. Cavity wall insulation and plenty of loft insulation. Double glazing. To be fair it always was a reasonably warm house. Our combi gas heating would average 8,000 - 10,000 kwh per year. I do understand many older properties present their own challenges.
I wonder if Victorian chimneys could be re-purposed for ducting? @@richardhanmer
@@richardhanmer But A2A heatpumps don't need lots of ducting. The pipes are small refrigerant pipes (plus insulation so something like 50x80mm for the pipe-pair). I guess the VRF 3-pipe type are a bit bigger. That's not particularly difficult to fit in most houses - more or less the same as pipes to radiators which there has been plenty of in 100+ year old Victorian terraces.
Is it me or did Richard and Adam talk at cross purposes about ceiling Fans as used in America (c40 minutes in)? I thought Richard was talking about traditional large-diameter slow-turning/medium-speed ceiling fans which have been used for years around the world particularly in hot climates without AC availability and can be set to sir the air with a down draft in summer or reverse to stir and displace the ceiling level warm air on cooler/cold days. While Adam was talking about Ceiling Cassette AC/Warm-Air units. I've used 30" fans in a vaulted church hall to move and distribute the accumulated warm air from electric convector heaters downwards to improve comfort levels in winter time and in the reverse direction to provide a downward cooling breeze or draft onto the seated congregation in summer.
Hey Heat Geeks. I have followed your channel with interest for quite a while now. I have been on your website and got a quote but it seems to be all about air to water which doesn’t interest me as I have electric storage heaters, not a standard central heating system. Is there any point in my requesting a design consultation visit from one of your members if I am only interested in air to air heating? Also - You say on your website video to call you or pop you an email, but I can’t find the contact details - which is why I am posting this comment on a year-old video!
No disrespect to the people in this video, because they are working hard to change it, but heating engineers, what a bunch of crooks! I long suspected that they just chucked boxes on the wall, either gas, oil, air to water or air to air, basically they all do the minimum possible.
for those of us that have partial A2A systems it would be good to see some videos from you (or a contributor) on how to potentially adjust settings on some models to make more comfortable/effecient.
You seen inverter always channel on youtube brilliant
I think air to air and air to water have there strengths and weakness, It depends on the circumstances which one is better, or my own view that both is best!, Been running this for the last 8 years, Air to air for heating, and air to water for hot water, if one breaks you still have the other, and also you have the benefit of cooling, air filtration and an overall higher heating cop. So would be great if you guys at heatgeek would embrace them both, after all they are really just a different take on the exact same technology. I think there should be grants available on both types, especially if air to air is installed in conjunction with solar for zero carbon cooling in summertime, now in the dawn of a warming climate. Great video, good info on the VRF!
Has A2A fitted and oh my goodness the effectiveness both of cooling and heating at a fraction of our previous gas and water cost. We have fitted Solar and batteries and most days even now (Nov 22) we are only paying standing charge and little more on cloudy days. Oct bill dual fuel was just under £30 pcm
ATM i only pay the standing charge for electric but i have a high gas bill . im hoping to get A to A for mt 3 bed house , ive got solar panels one 3 sides and a Tesla powerwall i know my electric bill will go up but i wont have gas , How are you doing now after all this time are you still pleased with it ?
Hi i have the same set up as you im getting A2A in a few weeks time im looking forwaord to having the gas removed , how are you getting on with it financially and being warm ?
I did not realise Adam didn't know this. I figured you were just targetting Heat Pumps because wet systems are more common in the UK.
Modulating AC systems when I was in the states are very common now from Mitubushi/ LG and others. Along with mini ducts to help spread air flow and mix air better instead of using ceiling fans. It's all in the pursuit of higher efficiency and comfort.
There is much more involved in setting up AC systems efficiently than people expect and once you go down the rabbit hole it's actually quite interesting. Sadly unless you're doing lots of places that currently have AC and want more efficient systems it's not normally financially viable to keep doing exams and manufacturer courses. Much the same as there's no point a domestic GasSafe engineer doing Commercial unless they're going to be working on it.
The modern units have basically 0-100% speed on fan, 0-100% on the compressor, 0-100% on the valve. So the control possibilities are far larger and less straight forward to set up per room than people would expect. As you can even regulate the volume of air arriving in each room individually on some systems. So including indoor and outdoor stats you have potentially a 7 point control system or greater.
there absolutely is a place for A2A heat pumps as there is for A2W. For example in loft (or basement ftm) conversions A2A works great. However if you have existing pipework with radiators and multiple smaller rooms A2W works best. Turns out there's no panacea.
I think the point around ceiling fans is to mix the layers up which will give an even temperature through the room.
This may aid in causing the room to reach temperature quicker as you stir the layers up and the sensor picks up on this HOWEVER with A2A it can be very uncomfortable if you have 26c air stuck at the ceiling but then the floor area is at 18c. You have to mix the layers up otherwise you are heating longer than you need to before the warmer layers get down to occupied level.
This is all totally true. We need to consider why we are running these systems. There is no point in it being more efficient if it's not making it a comfortable space.
@@yetihair Watch this video, which delves further into the topic... ruclips.net/video/l2Zdc09TirE/видео.html&lc=UgzNwJ-O8cJv_7xZs5d4AaABAg.9iBRWkFnRBs9iBqI6424_a
locate the unit at floor level.
@@keypoint1293 not all units can be mounted at floor level as they are optimised to work higher up.
@@richardc1983 Simple just buy the right type for the job.
Would be good to see Richard start a YT channel focusing on home air-to-air
Thanks for the comment. Do you think this would be welcomed? I've never seen myself in this way to be honest but might consider doing it if It's something people would like to see.
@@richardc1983 I think this would be a great idea. I'm looking at air to air heat pumps now and the amount of products and features makes it quite difficult to choose. Recommendations for good installers or how to choose them would also be useful.
@@richardc1983 Hi Richard, wondering if we could connect as I'm about to dive into getting my house decked out with A2a (no gas here, A2W would be unbelievably disruptive). Feel like I should run my plan by you before committing! Unsure how to share details on here privately though. Can you let me know your company name and I'll reach out that way
i find smaller mini splits seem to have better efficiency. so maybe two smaller units than one big one
I'm just a regular consumer who's just had A2A installed in most of my house for the benefit of summer cooling (alongside my traditional gas heating) and this was an enlightening conversation. I already knew a bit about A2A having used these systems in offices for years, but Richard is absolutely next level. I will be asking my engineer some questions off the back of this video, like setting of ceiling height etc. It's also given me ideas on how to make the A2A heating more comfortable. Thanks so much, looking forward to the next one!
Thanks for the feedback :) if you enjoyed the chat take a look at Inverter Always channel on youtube. Fantastic channel delving deep into the techy stuff!
@@richardc1983 can you send a link to this channel? Struggling to find it in search and very interested!!
@@patlaroche9118 he's taken most of his videos down for now unfortunately and not sure why. Me thinks too much info about the manufacturers etc. Knowledge is power.
@@richardc1983 ah man, evidently there's some stuff big air con doesn't want us to know!
Excellent, fascinating and highly informative discussion, and extremely important. I particularly appreciated the last points you raised with regard to customer psychology, expectations, and lack of knowledge and understanding with regard to solar gain.
My company is an innovative start up aimed primarily at installing air 2 air systems in static caravans, garden offices and other small buildings, using a ducted all-in-one a/c heat pump unit. This summer we installed a system in a Park Home (essentially a large, 'double-wide' static caravan), just before the peak heatwave. The customer was disappointed that the room was not reaching its target temperature. I returned to assess the problem and pointed out that, with the best will in the world, even with a cop of 3 to 4, a 1kw could not compete with the solar gain from four large south-facing windows. I recommended the addition of mirror film on the glass and/or sun shades, even offered to fit these at cost, but the customer declined.
It is vital that the public becomes properly informed about solar gain, which can produce an average of around 4kwh/m² of clear glazing.
Very interesting
1kw 😂 I installed a 3.5kw Daikin split Heatpump in my static caravan about 5 years ago. Works a treat. A 1kw system would be like peaing in the ocean 🤦
Would love to have audio versions of your videos!
Very interesting comment.
Yes, as when listening (only) via yt can't do anything else on phone, whereas podcasts carry on (or pause n resume) in background. Belinda Carr does both I think. Clearly won't work for very visual presentations!
I liked this interview very much btw.
@richardc1983
Hi Richard, thank you to both you and Adam for this. So informative. Do you offer consultation work for residential properties?
Air conditioning has nothing to do with C02 !
Very enjoyable and I love the discussions out of the box. Having lived with only air to air now for the last 24 years I just believe it is the way to go. As the guy says the variety of installs is amazing. For relatively little money you can heat and cool. Can be very compact. You don't have to have a hot water tank either. You could fit point of use electric water heaters. Yes they draw a lot of power but only in short bursts. Or if you still had gas the heat as it flows gas boilers. Very popular here. Small and no tanks. Very efficient. I only have single split systems. Plus one he didn't mention which is also pretty common here. Self contained box units. The whole unit goes in the wall or people retro fit into a window. These aircons I usually just run on auto. I suppose you get used to them. But with minimal adjustment to just temperature settings you can be comfortable hot or cold. We also run reversible fans. And these definitely help circulate the air and improve the comfort. For ease of install. Cost of install. Compactness. Hard to beat.
Hey Dave, the window or wall units you refer to are known as window rattlers! They are very common in America but banned for sale in some countries because of the inefficiencies of having them in a window and the amount of transfer of heat from the box to the outside. I think they have started making models now that are inverter driven too. I'd avoid that type though it's a very old style and not the most efficient due to what I have said above.
@@richardc1983 I have seen them in many places around the World. They have their place for several reasons. First cost. In a lot of less developed hot areas it may be all you can afford. Two they can be easily mobile. People renting here move them from house to house. Three most but not all are plug and play. Here they plug straight into a 10 amp plug. The larger split systems are hard wired back to their own fuse. Again making them easy to transport and set up. They are therefore of small output and use way less power than a bigger split system. In areas with compromised power supplies this can also be of benefit. They may not be that efficient but better than nothing for localised cooling. In Australia our home insulation is terrible. The doors don't fit. And largely single glazed. Heating or cooling. Nothing is efficient. It all comes down to having something that works that makes our habitat more comfortable. In a perfect world we run the latest and greatest of everything whilst doing our bit to save the planet. The rest of us simply have to live in the real World.
@@davetaylor4741 Completely agree Dave, unfortunately, it's the gods that control what we can and can't buy locally.
What is cheaper for heating? I'm so confused. Multi Split or a wet radiator room heating? I saw another channel who put in the A2A split and it was costing the dude 8 quid a day. He seemed to think that was good value. I thought OMG thats really expensive.
I'm really glad to see some good info on air to air systems! I just had a Toshiba multi split system installed in my house a couple of weeks ago instead of going with a heat pump powered wet system. (Saved £13k in the process!) When researching all this I found it really hard to find any good info about a2a systems in the UK, and I'm actually planning some videos and a website about all this just to try and get some good info out there and share my experience. Would love to chat!
The house is a three bedroom bungalow with one outdoor unit and four indoor high wall mounted units. One in each bedroom then one in the living/dining room. The heat finds it's way into the bathroom and kitchen on it's own so it hasn't been an issue not having units there. My situation made this a great option since the area doesn't have mains gas, so no wet system was here when I bought the place, only old storage heaters. So it's a much simpler system instead of having pipes run everywhere and 10 radiators added to the property.
SCOP of the units is 4.60, so very efficient. One of the surprises was that setting the temp of the units at 17 or 18 actually makes the house really comfortable. I've just been setting the indoor units to auto fan speed, and leaving it running all the time and it's been really consistent and quite pleasant.
Interesting to hear about some units setting the lowest auto fan speed to medium, these ones seem to set it to low. At least I think so, if I manually put it on low it seems to be the same speed. So overall I just let it do it's thing.
Would love to see more content about this, and if you have any questions about how I'm getting on with the system please let me know! I certainly got kind of geeky in learning about how all this stuff works when researching all my options and I'm all about getting some better info about these sorts of systems out there. I don't think many people even know they're an option.
Can I ask how old your property is and do you have cavity wall insulation with using this type of system? One of the reasons that puts me off heat pump is the cost and having to go back to having a huge water tank again
@@Messimagician83 you don’t need a big hot water tank with a wet heat pump. You can consider your heating and hot water separately if desired. We’re in a similar situation. We have A2A but not for the whole house. We’re wondering whether to go Wet heat pump (our house and radiators are ok for it), or extend the A2A. We have a combi and no space for a water tank so looking at options like sunamp/ZEB (storage heater driven boiler) etc. options out there
@@Messimagician83 It's a 70s property, brick and block, all solid walls, no interior stud or plasterboard walls, but no cavity wall insulation. It's certainly not the best insulated at the moment outside of cavity wall either since I tore up the carpets when I moved in (they were gross) and it's still only got bare tiles on a concrete floor. The loft is insulated but I need to add more. Even with those shortcomings the system is working great. More insulation would certainly help, though. The tank and other kit needed for the wet system put me off, too!
How many kWh a month are you seeing your A2A system use per month to heat your house?
@@MattGarnham1 It's hard to say since I've only had it a few weeks! I don't have any good monitoring set up on it either yet, but in my casual checking of the smart meter I'd say 300-400 kWh per month. That's with it running 24/7 keeping the whole house a pretty stable temperature.
I had an air to air fitted in my last house, the installation and design was terrible. Outdoor unit far too big (6.8kw with 2 indoor units and only one of them ever on), large sections of insulation missing. no sealing to prevent drafts, the refrigeration pipes went over the attic trusses and were bent with someone walking over them etc.
I would love to know how efficient it was
I've done gas boiler systems and aircon for 30 years. Just knocked gas safe on the head this year as the climate control/ aircon/heatpump systems are a 52 week job now. Everyone originally gets me in for the cooling but always end up telling me they use it more in heating. 1kw of power for 3kw of heating? No brainer but it's just the price for decent gear( same as the boiler industry) 👍
We do the same, not 30 years yet mind! I find it interesting working in both fields, gives customer more choices. Particularly in the commercial sector.
@@darrenr1995 yes it makes work life a lot easier having a good appreciation of both sides. Much prefer the a/c side as there aren't as many problems from people having a go before they call you. They don't understand it as much so are wary to have a go which is mad as there is more chance blowing your house up with gas?
@@karlrichardson471 it is true! I think people have a go less with AC because they genuinely don’t understand it. When learning, I understood gas & boilers much quicker than when I transferred to AC. Refrigeration took a lot more concentrations to understand the processes.
I also find AC equipment extremely reliable.
@@darrenr1995 yea keep it shrouded in mystery🤣. Also find a lot of suppliers won't sell stuff especially refrigerant unless you show a valid fgas certificate which makes life easier from our point of view 👍.
@@karlrichardson471 Guys, can I ask what qualifications/processes you went through (or are required) to get certified to do installs of air conditioning. I'm considering a career change at the moment and I'm intrigued. Obviously I don't expect a one week course and be ready to go or anything! Just wondered if it requires years of apprenticeships etc. I'm self employed just now, and would ideally like to continue being self employed whilst learning, which is problematic for apprenticeships and so on. Apologies to take you off topic!
I think Richard's contribution to HG is invaluable and highlights the dark arts in the industry - the analogy of car AC is a perfect example - it's been around for decades yet I've never heard the argument that it 'can't be conditioning unless managing CO2' - that's bizarre. Fear of the unknown seems to be an underlying issue too - spot on saying that the heating industry needs to adapt or die...
Really interesting to go through these points, thank you both. I think to me what it highlights is just how much expertise is needed to both specify and setup/adjust the system once it's been fitted.
I can see Adams cogs turning 👀 🤣
Great discussion. Richard was excellent and explains things really well. Great questions Adam. BTW Adam put the clock behind you on the table on the wall 😉
I’ve had “air to air” units in the last three houses I’ve had. To me they make a lot of sense especially with the warmer summers. I guess having three storey house helped with the decision.
I'm thinking about these given my radiators and piping is ageing. My piping is also microbore
I then wonder well, perhaps A2A is cheaper to run than me just replacing everything
Air to air
Or air to water to air. Thats all rads do, they're heat exchanger in the house
Fitted a 3 way split in my house that cost me £2k (fgas engineer) 5 years ago, my average scop since install is 5. I run my gas boiler between 4⁰ as at that point my gas becomes cheaper
That guy knows his onions 🧅
I live near an airport and this video flew higher over my head than the planes. I have a large conservatory which gets boiling in summer and freezing in winter. It currently has two electric wall heaters. I wonder whether an air to air con system might work.
Hi, Stuart, a cold-climate rated air-to-air heat pump will work more efficiently than your resistance wall heaters for the same amount of electricity (just citing some constant for comparison) and also provide some amount of cooling (not saying that is “enough”). In the summer the most efficient intervention would be an exterior sun screening mechanism to reduce solar heat gain loading up the conservatory with heat - the A2AHP will ameliorate the heat gain in summer, but sizing it for peak heat is excess size and expense vs. some high wall or high angle screening outside to cut down on heat gain. In the winter, your conservatory is radiating heat out through the glass which is harder to control for relative to reducing the need for Btu’s, but cellular shades can be fitted including motorized version. Long answer, but reducing load is always smart - what’s nice about the conservatory is what is bad about it: too much glass by definition. A heat pump will bring more Btu into the room for the same electricity - true, but not a sizing statement based on a heat load calculation. I’m suggesting you do NOT size for comfort at extreme temps, just something same capacity heating as your electric wall units, take the cooling you get and reduce the load as top priority. Hope that helps.
Air to air is a no brainer if you have electric wall heaters currently, plus the added benefit of cooling in summer. Fit some blinds or shades as well to help reduce the heat load.
Stuart, the simple answer is 'yes', it will work in your conservatory better than your wall heaters, although you probably need to take a look at improving the thermal efficiency of your conservatory too, for example having a solid insulated roof fitted. Think about hot countries, where cooling is necessary in the summer, almost every building has aircon fitted and have had for decades. These are mostly mini-split air to air heat pumps that can provide cooling or heating, the technology is simple, effective and proven. We are years behind in the UK.
Very informative but need to add something re the VRF or VRV systems the cheaper versions of VRF / VRV are two pipe which would be less likely to have heat recovery ( one or more rooms heating whilst one room or more cooling) plus the 3 pipe systems are not always able to have heat recovery but would be able to have both modes heat. / cool available.
There are Cellar coolers which can heat hot water with the waste condenser heat - perfect for a pub with busy kitchen.
Cheers
In the netherlands and germany the propane, r290 refrigderant ( spelling) is coming in the market voor a2w heatpumps. Take a look at Itho Vincent or Alfa innotech paros. Units for the attick, without outside units, for terraced houses.
I've been an A/C Engineer for over 15 years and Richard is certainly very informed and its great to see someone who isn't directly linked with Air Conditioning be so knowledgeable.
Regarding his daikin unit which had a failed compressor, 99% of compressor failures are installation related and I would suggest an oil sample to be taken and the compressor to be inspected.
99% of compressor failures on 3 pipe VRV II's are related to failed solenoids 🤣
These are designed as cooling units with reversing valve for heating. They circulate dusty, smelly air around the room air via a crude filter that is rarely changed. We respond to radiant heat from the walls, if you start one up in a cold room, you can feel the cold wall even if the air is 22c! They are ugly, audible and poorly controlled via a crappy remote. They do not produce hot water and the only advantage is summer cooling ( with similar poor control etc.). UK gov does not want us to fit home AC... Phil Daw
I worry when I hear a heating engineer talking AC, it’s a completely different ball game. With air to water heat pumps you can soft solder the pipework as it’s low pressure water, the gas side is sealed, you don’t touch it.
With air to air split your running refrigeration pipework, it’s a whole new ball game.
You need thicker pipe, you need to braze the fittings not soft solder and so important you need to run N2 through the pipes when brazing.
You the have to pressure test and vacuum, before you open the valves and add gas.
Your man said he had a compressor failure after 3 months on a Daikin, my blood froze, I will bet a thousand bucks that N2was not used, or the system was not vacced out properly.
Guys on an F ticket should not touch any system over 18kW, that’s law here in Western Australia.
Frankly the F ticket is probably a very bad idea as guys will cut corners and just won’t blow N2 when brazing, this leads to calcification inside the pipes, black tar like crap forms inside, once the refrigeration is put in, the oil literally drags this off and it turns to gooh, lining the compressor and the EEV etc leading to failure in no time, three months is about right.
Good vid, your man knows his stuff but if you are going to install air to air split systems please please use a proper refrigeration engineer as most manufacturers will walk from a warranty call if they find it’s not been installed using N2 and believe me they will.
Glad I wasn’t the only one who thought that when he said failed after 3 months! Most likely brazing without nitrogen.
Hi Gary, I am not a heating engineer. I work in Facilities Management I run commercial buildings so I deal with HVAC plus a whole other scope of other services and utilities. In terms of the unit that failed, Daikin said it was a bad compressor when they got it back which also took out the main PCB. I've heard they've had many failed condensers on some of the R32 kit. Completely agree with you though, for me, I personally think it was the original installation which was a brand new system & pipework but have no way of proving it we used an FGAS-registered company/engineers etc. Imagine if non-Fgas engineers are allowed to install the kit and cut corners as it's not required to do certain things if not Fgas registered etc. Fortunately Daikin covered under warranty but I haven't been that impressed with some of the R32 kit on offer. It has much higher air discharge temps in heating and very cold discharge in cooling which results in complaints re comfort.
@@richardc1983 I can see this R290 thing being an issue as the non experienced will start installing them without knowing correct method of pressure testing, vacuum procedure and adding gas. Will lead to short life span of the kit.
@@darrenr1995 yep, in an already throw way culture.
You seem Inverter Always channel on RUclips. Brilliant channel
I have 3 familie members that use airconditioning units for heating. It is horrible 🙁 the noise is so annoying and the draft of air constantly blowing in your face or your neck 😖
Yes the initial costs are lower but I will spend the extra few thousand Euro's for a heatpump just for the comfort alone.
Geek meets Geek 😀
If you want to install air-to-air for heating and never for cooling would it be more sense to mount them near the floor?
They work great in heating this way the floor mount units don't fit a high wall unit on the floor level it won't work properly. They also work great in cooling.
Check out the Daikin Perfera floor mounted units! I have one in my bedroom and two wall mounted Daikin Stylish units in another bedroom and the kitchen all part of a multi-split system
Finally, someone who can out talk Adam!
If you decide to get ceiling fans, remember that DC fans work just as well but save a fortune in running costs!
Yep I have DC ceiling fans, very efficient and silent running. They move more air than the former AC fans but have a wider range of speeds.
Does it go via a rectifier, or is this whenfed directly off an offgrid battery?
@@TheDaztheraz I wondered that very thing.
@@TheDaztheraz no they are DC motors basically brushless motors. Like a computer fan.
@@richardc1983 AC ceiling fans also help at night time imo
They're easier to clean, and blow air nicely around you whilst you're sleeping. My dad made a house in Pakistan, where they've got ceiling fans everywhere
They don't have AC because the electricity there is ridiculously expensive but the ceiling fans work so much better than even the super tough DC fans
They also saved me from mosquito bites tbf
So many questions...is there a forum where they can be asked properly?
this sumer we just set 3 slipts in mi apartment for cooling and to stop using gas for heating. this Will be our frist winter.
Am looking to add some air to air units for heating only to our house, but I’m finding myself with so many questions about sizing, best placement for circulation of heat and comfort, whether I can get an oversized unit to flow into adjoining rooms or whether it really is one unit per room, but very little online content that helps, especially UK specific content. Really think we could do with a dedicated channel or website to help. I feel like I need to know with our home floor plan where and how many units I’d need to successfully heat the whole house, rather than slapping in a unit here or there and hoping for the best. Atleast with a master plan I could then install the total set up in stages as funds allow. I’ve read about a few people heating their 4 bed houses with only 4 or 5 strategically placed units, not a dozen with one in every one. Would love to see some whole house design ideas
An air con engineer (which is what air to air is) will be able to do this for you and come up with a plan. Yes some folk do it this way by using a few units to do many rooms but in my own home I have a unit per room it just works better this way for my home.
@@richardc1983 I imagine upstairs, in ceiling cassettes would be the ideal rather than high level wall units. The cost would perhaps be prohibitive though for that route
@@jamesw7786 do you mean ducted units in the loft? That's the units I have and they work very well. Yes it was more costly but very happy with it.
@@richardc1983 yes, the ducted type. They must give more freedom to place units in the optimum spots rather than where wall space dictates. Presumably with the ducted units, you then have to manage the hygiene of the ducting?
@@jamesw7786ductwork remains clean really as on the return air the ducktwork is short and the airflow removes any dust to collect on the filter. On the supply side the airflow has been through the filters so doesn't need cleaning. Occasionally I might put a feather duster around the vents in the room as like anytning dust can gather.
To me the inside units should be from floor to ceiling and with reversable fans
As I see it with air to air, you are using the refrigerant to move the heat to the room, with air to water then you have water as an intermediary. For rooms that are infrequently used, kitchens bathrooms bedrooms air to airs ability to rapidly inject heat just when in use is bound to save energy overall.
Saving overall as most of the time these rooms can be left at a much cooler temp and only a blast when you walk in.
This felt like a full on geek out, awesome.
One thing that is seldom mentioned - A2A and moving air is helpful in old homes with coldspots and prone to internal damp!
Really good to see - and interesting that while there are different concerns, again a lot of the sort of myth-busting stuff is the same or analogous. Personally I'm quite attracted to air-to-air, partly because I'd love to get the wall space back from the radiators in the downstairs rooms, and partly because my current system is a bit of a mess and the disruption to upgrade it is quite intimidating.
One thing that was touched on that I'd like to hear more about, is air exchange; if I seal the house up with good insulation, I then need to change the air which would mean ducting and heat-recovery etc.
You could look at a basic positive input fan (look up drimaster) which takes are from your loft, filters it (usually this air is a few degrees warmer than outside) and pumps it into your landing. Then this pushes stale damp air out of the natural openings in the house. This works very well. The other option is a heat recovery system which is more intrusive to install.
Hi Richard,
Such an informative video. Do you offer consultation work for residential properties?
MVHR is definitely a good thing - I wonder if old Victorian houses could use ducts in the chimneys to run air intakes up to the MVHR in the loft - and blow the fresh air down through the hallway ceiling? Not too disruptive to do that.
So, is a main takeaway for air-to-air HP that you should limit the fan to a low setting and not put it in auto mode or is that a bit simplistic?
Low fan speed will give more time for the compressor to adjust its output whereas auto or high fan will warm or cool the room quicker resulting in compressor not being able to ramp down as quick before possibly overshooting the temp. There may be times where a higher air flow is needed though.
Would love to see more about settings and A2A heat-pumps: soon installers are going to be here to mount one, but (same as UK) I think they will not provide more info/optimization
Use the correct heating mode for the season, don’t set it to auto (set it to heat or cool). Dont set the temperature higher than you want the room temperature. Some units have a “high power” mode to heat faster, or something similar. Get the manual for your heatpump - you should be able to find it online or the installer should leave it.
As we in the uk only need cooling for a couple of weeks a year (at worst!) it makes sense to optimise for heating and just use the cooling as a bonus. I would be interested to see a cost comparison for heating vs a combi boiler.
Cost me £46 last month (November) for heating in a 5-bed detached house. Using batteries and Octopus Cosy rates. No CO2 generated though. 👍
@@johnhunter4181 Hi John, how many units are you running in a 5 bed and what solution are you using for your bathroom(s)?
@@Soulrollsdeep Hiya, we have two individual 3.5kW (output) Panasonics. One is downstairs mounted just above the floor and the other wall mounted upstairs. It works for us for a few reasons: insulation, open plan house and MVHR. The house is Swedish, the MVHR circulates the air, we don't close the doors and use the whole house all the time. Actually the doors are deliberately not airtight - it was built 40 years ago with whole house ventilation and triple glazing. Because our 40 year old boiler was using 4kWh of gas every day to run the pilot light, we switched to using the immersion heater on overnight rates. It has been economical and working well since June but we are a bit reliant on Octopus Cosy, so I'm almost ashamed to admit we are getting a new 11kW boiler to do the hot water and will run with weather compensation to have central heating only when it's well below zero. I was desparate to get a high temp ASHP but MCS make the process a complete farce and they have artificially inflated the prices. Installers now expect to pocket £7500 for what could be a very simple job.
@@johnhunter4181 Gotcha, yeah we swerved a £27k A2W install and decided on A2A at just over £8k. We're having 7 internal units installed spread across two outdoor pumps, as we're a 3 storey, 4 bed house, so I feel we need the unit volume to keep it at the temp needed.
I'm assuming the 2 units are not enough to heat the house sufficiently during the coldest of days/nights? Is there a reason not to add more A2A units rather than the boiler route you mentioned?
Also, might be worth looking at Eon Drive. They don't actually check if you have an EV and you get 12 hours at 9.5p/kwh overnight, so would work well with a good battery setup (we've got 24.2kwh in total), we also use an immersion overnight, takes two hours at 6kw/h on Octopus Intelligent, so 45p a day and it works fine for us
@@Soulrollsdeep Sounds like you have a good set up - our batteries are only 13kWh - a lot depends on your lifestyle. We really haven't had any trouble heating the house @20-22°C with 2x3.5kW units this winter. I mean running them flat out would cost twice as much as any day did this winter. I would say don't underestimate what difference insulation makes. Our house was only using about 6500kWh of gas per year for heating - with an ancient boiler. Having 7 units could be a lot of ugly pipework - we didn't choose multisplits because they are not quite as efficient and having two compressors gives us some redundancy and independence. Ignoring MCS and the BUS scheme, you could install a small cheap high temp monobloc A2W heat pump to put some warmth in the rads and heat your water without replumbing the whole thing - maybe shut the rads in rooms heated with A2A? Also I wouldn't size the system for -7°C because it happens so rarely and you could just put on a convector for a few hours. I'd also look at something like this: VITOCAL 200-A because it can be installed with minimum changes to pipework. Just don't expect MCS to approve it - they are the real problem.
In many countries a multi split is installed and then the internal cassettes added per room as they want / afford.
Yep that's what I have in my own home. We've just added a 5th unit onto the outdoor unit.
I've been looking into heating options for a remodel, and came across Powrmatic; would be absolutely amazing if you were able to check them out as a viable UK option. The 3:1 output with no external unit seems too good to be true but would be absolutely perfect for my property if it stands up to scrutiny...
I think they are far too expensive - spend half as much on a better mini-split and pay for the f-gas man to install it. It'll give better performance (SCOP) and work to a much lower outside temp.
I think your Heat Geek mission is great, and the points discussed are good, but I think you will communicate more effectively with more people if you condense this video, or make a summarised version as it is far too long for most people to watch through. I have a VRF a/c system for two rooms in my house and a heat pump to replace the previous gas boiler. I agree that air-to-air heat pumps offer a great alternative for many people compared to a heat pump as the siting issues are easier and they can be used by those off the gas grid. Installation is much simpler so they are cheaper too.
Agree. This will come.
@@HeatGeek Yes need to get onto this Adam and do a condensed down version... this was more an open debate video.
Loved stumbling over this. Richard seemingly missed Centrally ducted systems like I have. I run a hybrid system, with a cold climate (down to -15 C)York outdoor system with inverter to a matched coil mounted in the duct work above a 2 stage furnace with variable air handler (fan). These heat pumps are what the North American governments are generally suggesting to replace gas furnaces (boilers) in centrally ducted homes.
My mother in the UK still has her forced air boiler and ductwork in her early 70s house and I've been trying to convince her to get quotes on a similar system to ours over there. Unfortunately she's not computer savvy and I'm not getting much luck searching out her options from here. She wanted to go boiler and radiators but at her age, I don't think the outlay would be worth it to her. Plus with air to air she has the plus of cooling in the Summer. With the most modern builds, they have selectable upper and lower air returns to condition the cooler air on the ground in winter and the hot ceiling air in summer. Most of the inverter heat pumps are non communicating so there's not the automation I've seen on some of your videos. But the smart thermostats generally give you the option to use an outside temp probe or just connect to a weather app.
I’ve got an air to air in my bedroom, wall mounted unit. Simple to use, it has silent mode for nights (around 30DB) and it runs slowly with minimal cycles. Then can choose between low, medium and fast for when it’s hotter or the sun is on my room. Then it has High power mode which is 30 mins of all systems running at full wack. It’s an inverter unit with outdoor temp settings. Getting a COP of 3.8 on cooling according to its stats. I’m not even an engineer just interested in the best way to use it. Most units move the louvers to the best setting by standard these days. Good video gents.
We have Samsung units installed in each room (3 of them) which we bought for cooling (roof flat conversion with not enough insulation). They have an Auto mode and also an AI Auto mode which seems to work pretty well on both heating and cooling.
It actually will close the louvre and go down to the lowest fan setting when the room is in the right condition. Called Windfree.
A few things about living with them:
- noise: they are noisier than central heating. If you are noise sensitive you will notice especially if you are sitting neat the unit.
- locality: there is a breeze coming from the unit and the unit is hottest/coldest near the unit. If you are sensitive to this, then it won't be fun.
Also probably you want to sort out insulation as much as possible especially for heating.
Modern units now have wifi connections which you can use for automations but also report back energy efficiency and how much it is costing you per day.
I get a kick out of your American speak because implied assumption we all think alike and use the same equipment for heating and cooling across the country as well as many other things like culture is the same:) Great video with lots of knowledge on heat pumps.
My comments are offered as constructive feed back so you can ‘spread the good word’ more effectively.
Far, far, far too many words! Just as good written explanations need ‘white space’, effective oral/aural explanations need quiet time to absorb information. Talking over each other creates even further noise. I have had to stop half way through! However, I will not give up. I intend to replay from the start, use the pause button and absorb/make key notes. Thanks for all you efforts.
Ceiling fans are also something that don't really exist in the UK. Always wondered how good they are to mix air for heating/cooling.
Hi love the videos.
I'm about to take the A2A HP plunge and wondering would it be possible for ye guys to give your opinions on the best performing model ?
Thanks
The Daikin multi split to heat hot water is not approved in the uk
Look at the LG Multi V + Hydro Kit.
This may he similar to what I was thinking, if you could use the heat output from an aircon unit to heat the hot water. 1 I wasn't quite sure how feasible it would be, and 2 when I worked out the heat out putted would be a lot more than required to heat a cylinder so would only have a limited effect, in an ideal world would be good to save a summer's worth of heat for the winter
Let's follow the science......wait a minute, that didn't work in the last 3 years.
27:28 Yes that’s very deep, it always gets “Deep”, when you speak about religion.
@heat geek i know you don’t really like zones but you are really fans of tado.
So what about doing living room and kitchen with decent air to air unit (mhi or daikin) and let the rest toilets, badroom and others if needed run under the control of tado by use of your boiler.
I know it is not optimal but this gives the option of cooling, heating with low co2 (if solarpanels) low costs not long to set up.
And for real cold days you always have your combi which you use for hot water anyway so u get a decent gas eeduction
glad you did this followup because your first video was just finding ways of justifying your view of a2w. I’ve had a modern cassette put in my loft conversion, only used it a couple of months for heating and it seemed pretty good and used a very little electricity. Going to give it another winter and if it works, i’ll put some more cassettes in elsewhere. Mine is totally silent.
It seems ideal for a new build or off gas grid house, but when you've already got a wet heating system supplied by a combi is it worth having some A2A to go with it? The cooling in summer would be very welcome and we could fit PV panels to power this, and also do some heating especially in the shoulder seasons. We are end of terrace townhouse with loft conversion and I can imagine a pump on our gable wall with distribution pipes on the outside feeding at least one cassette on each of the 4 floors. We only have 40sqm each floor so I can imagine even putting the units in the stairwell and with doors open the heating or cooling would spread quickly. But it would then be difficult to decide what to do with the boiler when it packs in and how to get hot water. Ideally the pump could heat a Sunamp heat store? Also hard to imagine that we would cap off and decommission all our radiators. Not very keen on the air to water pump technology as it doesn't cool, seems complex and expensive and I don't want something the size of fridge in my airing cupboard...
Look at LG vrf hydro kit on google. There's plenty of info on it. You get a water module the same size as your boiler (but would need a tank for the water somewhere) the amazing thing about VRF rather than standard splits is that when you are cooling in the summer much of the heat energy taken from the inside air is indirectly then used to heat your hot water rather than dumped to atmosphere. My parents have 1 split unit upstairs and 1 downstairs connected to the same outdoor unit as well as the central heating. It cools the entire upstairs and the cool air then falls down the stairs and cools the dining room at the bottom and hall. The unit they have in the lounge then takes care of the rest of the house.
Thanks Richard for your suggestion. LG seems to be marketing the Hydro kit for the business community rather than residential. Are there any residential case studies? LG's information doesn't specify the sort of water tanks that are compatible. It looks like this concept has a long way to go before it becomes mainstream.
@@stephenhall1774 deffo for residential... The pictures and drawings online will show it in a home toom depending on size of outdoor unit will determine the size home etc.
@@richardc1983 thank you for this. I have found mentions of possible use in blocks of flats, but not individual houses. I have asked LG but not heard back from them. Difficult to make much progress
As someone whom is taking the A2A plunge I would likevto know Richards personal preference model for a ducted or mini split system.
Thanks for the video.
A great video and I was pleased to see that HG have got themselves and us all up to speed with what AC has to offer going forward. Given the lower overall entry cost of AC and very straightforward installation with minimal pipe runs for our house, I intend to run AC with a two-way mini-split to control the upstairs temperature and the downstairs living / dining room temperature. Our gas central heating will continue to be used in tandem as required for additional room heating and for the system boiler, which currently takes surplus PV from our recently installed panels to save on gas.
Experience of heating in the colder months and cooling in the summer months will then inform us as what further investments to make in both heat pumps (whether air-to air or air to water) and battery storage, taking into account what standard, off-peak, peak time, and export tariffs become available over the next 12 months. I have Govee smart temperature and humidity readings throughout the house including the loft, with weatherproof units measuring outside temperature at ground level and roof line. This is geekish but simple to set up and will help to make choices and changes based on actual temperature data as well as energy consumption and how comfortable we are in the house day to day.
Simple question; For heating use, do you put the outside in a sunny spot, and the inside lower on the wall?
New to the channel, and a year in to the commercial ventilation industry so I found this very interesting
Air to air is ideal more efficient responsive no complex plumbing or radiators.
Fix the A 2 A internal unit fixed at a lower - nearer to the floor level ! It’s common sense!
Very well put together discussion. One of the only things I would add or maybe worth a video in itself is the BS EN 378 regulations. With buildings becoming more air tight leak detection and the risks associated with air displacement. Is worth covering when it comes to having refrigerant gases running through spaces.
Good thought, fortunately a lot of modern AC have built in leak detection .
@@darrenr1995 I do agree with that but we are still talking about larger volumes of refrigerant gas that does need considering. For residential I do think pre charged monoblocks are the way forward keeping the gas outside the building envelope. Natural radiant and convection is obviously the least power consumption and fan assisted unit is going to use energy however small the amount.
@@JonnyR1981 there is a potential hazard, similar to natural gas running in homes. Good installation practice with strength testing of pipe work and indoor units is a must. Plus, with R32 for example there is a minimum volume of space per refrigerant quantity that must be adhered to (given in the manuals) to avoid high concentrations in a leak scenario.
What is the difference between comfort and comfortability
This bloke reads Daikin manuals more than most Daikin staff.
Great chat. I’m building a house in Aus. 4 heat pumps: AC, DHW, UFH and Pool. Might be able to combine DHW and UFH. Madness. Told to have the ones rejecting heat facing the ones rejecting cold outside so they help each other lol!
Great chat. Thanks Adam and Richard. Still thinking about installing A2A in our house (1994 3-bed semi) so this session was very useful.
Hey Craig, it was myself on the video chatting with Adam. I like A2A but id always try get the floor console units purely because in heating they blow heat out at feet level which is very nice so a direct replacement for radiators. The Daikin version has a radiant panel on the front as well. However some my prefer not to see a unit and go with a low static or medium to high static ducted unit. Or go cheap and have wall mounts which come in chrome finishes these days.
@@richardc1983 Hi Richard. Thanks for your reply. I can understand how the floor level units would deliver warm air to the occupied part of the room more quickly.
The principal reason for considering A2A is to have the option of cooling in the Summer, which I think are going to have longer and longer periods of quite hot weather. We live in the south of Scotland, which isn’t too bad in terms of the temperature or duration of hot spells but I think we’ll be like SE England before too long!
We have a Daikin A2A mini-split in a garden ‘pod’ building my wife uses for her business. It’s been working well all year round for over three years now. Originally we were considering A2W and underfloor heating but I think A2A would provide more flexibility in terms of cooling. The house isn’t big by any stretch of the imagination so the possibility of eliminating radiators is quite appealing too!
@@protectiongeek is it a bungalow or do you have an upstairs? You could have a2w also and use the same type of fan coils that instead of refrigerant circulating through its warm or cold water depending on mode.
@@richardc1983 it’s two storey. Three beds plus bathroom upstairs. Living room, kitchen/dining room downstairs plus garage conversion to office room. Was thinking (depending on overall cost) of having separate A2W ASHP for DHW incorporating a storage tank that could be also be connected with a Solar PV system and diverter in the future. Just at the stage of getting some quotes together but finding it a challenge to locate installers of domestic A2A in this part of the country.
@@protectiongeek go a2w for the house and instead of rads use fan coils... Then when it's in cooling you can use the heat that would be thrown to the air outside to heat the hot water. Look at LG therna v with heat recovery I think they do a vrf also with heat recovery.
Doh! We’ve had a Mitsubishi air con unit in our bedroom for maybe 8 years and never even realised that it might use the heat pump in heating mode. I’d always assumed it used a plain electrical heating coil and so never used it. It would have been ideal recently with my wife working at home in that room and wanting extra heat without turning the gas central heating up. The installation engineer never explained. Just goes to show!
Well now you know lol
I think Richard likes to party.
This was a waste of 60 minutes. In a home, you do not need a building management system. In a home, you can set it up, and it will run great, mostly with the factory default controls.
A air to air heat pump is the most energy efficient system you can install. They run on the lowest possible cost per day. Anyone with a oil burner heating system, they should get a air to air ductless heat pump, and could save about $1,000 a year in heating costs, paying for a low cost system in as little as 2 years!
Air to water gets yo higher max efficiencies than air to air
Regarding your comments on setting up the system after install. An AC engineer commisioning an air to air split system will almost certainly be the best person to make any adjustment to a newly installed system. Let me assure you, I've dealt with "controls engineers" my entire working life and the last person you want fiddling with your system is him..... they'll want to sell you the most expensive "add-on" that'll work magic for your system. Let me tell you, most of it is utter rubbish. Over engineered crap that will guarantee a return call from the controls engineer at a premium.
The AC engineers don't know about most of these function settings... it's been a nightmare commercially trying to get them to adjust settings I ask them to adjust they don't know anything about them. These settings I refer to are part of the manufacturer's built-in controls not an external 3rd party. You just need a good AC engineer to make them not a controls expert.
I HAVE AN **AIR TO AIR TO AIR TO AIR PUMP!!**
AC works exactly the same , most are reversing so it can cool or warm . They just move heat from one place to another using a heat pump.
What's the thoughts on a Tepeo ZEB?
Hey. What is your standpoint on Water to Air heatpumps . Could you do a episode on that topic
No end opinion in this end Adam ????
nice to see some expansion of the discussion around efficient, decarbonised heating. There is lots to learn still from installers too - many people so far likley installed for cool air in hot summers so will have whacked systems in the rooms they wanted cooled. Installers will need to evolve to provide a broader push for this, considering air treatment, positioning in the house based on heat loss etc.
very interesting!
Do all heat pump fanatics have to wear a hat!!
Yes, a heat geek one.
Brilliant content. Can I ask a question. How much more efficient would a modern R32 A2A system be compared to a 16 year old R410A inverter A2A system.
I've had both, there is slightly more efficiency with R32 and likely the control software from 16 years ago will be less efficient than a modern unit. 16 years old is good for your system but I wouldn't replace or upgrade until it fails. R32 offers higher air off temps (uncomfortably hot for me) than what R410a does.
@@richardc1983 Thank you.
Hahahaha, there's definitely a certain lack of knowledge floating around on RUclips. An air to air Heatpump is an AC system 🤦. I've been installing and repairing them for 35 years 😂
Air con controls humidity. Its rare to find an a2a heat pump that does this.. I know of 1 diakin
You are correct, but the terminology now used is Air to Air but yes that is an AC system. Regardless of it, as long as cooling mode can be selected it will dehum, I remember the days when units were cooling only you didn't have the option to heat.
They are the same thing, air to air as long as it has cooling mode will air conditioning/cool/dehum.
What is Richards company called?
You can find me on LinkedIn :)
im going all in on the heat pumps
I certainly like the concept, but wondering what the lifetime of these units are? Obviously at some point you have to renew the outdoor AND the indoor units which isn’t really the case with radiators in a wet system.
20 years
@@HeatGeek thanks. For both indoor and outdoor units?
@@scottegner306 can be yes.. but that's subject to good service routine too mind
And the service routine is? Yearly? Cost? HVAC engineer availability? @@HeatGeek
Recently had an A2A installed as price vs. A2W was insanely better, esp considering we dont have radiatiors - its been a game changer for our house.
Hi Ryan, how did you go about sizing it? I've started getting quotes myself and the installers want to put massive units in, way abouve wet system BTUs. Also, how has the outdoor fan noise been with the neighbours? Thanks
Hi Ben, sizing I based on 125 watts per square metre, which would have been a 7.5 kwh system for our open plan living-kitchen-dining. Spoke to an installer who specialises in them and he said for our space no more than 5 kwh (60 sqm room, lots of windows). So far he seems spot on, we've had a few hot days and the sun beams through our large floor to ceiling windows and the aircon has kept the room cool, then on the cooler days i've tried cranking it to 30'c to test it and seems to work great too. A major win for the cooler is the dehumidification, I live in the humid North West and humidity has been an issue for us, now internal humidity has been around 50 vs. 90 previously.
Havent had the chance to test in bitterly cold weather or a heatwave as this was installed at the end of June as the weather went mild. Outdoor noise on our 5 kwh Mitsubishi Heavy Industries has been close to silent, I haven't heard it kick up any noise so far. My mum and dads which is a smaller kwh size is a little noiser even though its the same brand, but only noticeable when im outside and near the unit. If it was a terrance, you' probably hear it if you were outside as a low hum, road noise is far lounder though. We're getting two more of the 5 kwh systems (SRK50ZSWF for reference) and im very confident thats our full house covered. We have a large bungalow so placement requires two more outdoor units that cant be minisplits. The shape is a bit like two rectangles offset.
I should note the energy draw has so far been quite minimal, around 900 watts - I say minimal as my two dehumidifers would run at 300-400 each and that was without any cooling or heating; im assuming it will draw more in the depths of winter but such a huge improvement on our previous electric heating system (no gas in our house). We have solar panels too, and running it at 18'c so far in august during the day has cost £0. In winter my solar panels arent that great so theyll have less of a benefit, but theyll still chip into the running costs which of course a gas system wouldnt. All in all the installation and cost of materials of the 3 units will be ~£4500; if i wanted an air to wet systemit would likely be 20-30k based on our lack of radiators, or ground to wet system even more, it would have been prohibitively expensive.
I hope this has helped! @@ben5053
@RazzyRyan very helpful thank you. That seems very cheap for your system aswell.
@@ben5053 I looked at how much gas (in kWh) I was using on the coldest days and divided that by the COP of the AirCon system? The inefficiency of the gas boiler will leave you some wriggle room. As said in the video, any one system will be over specced for autumn and spring - I got two mini splits and use the downstairs one only when it's not too cold.
Olympia splendid , among others, a wall mounted airco/heater,is a solo unit with 2 holes in the wall, these are missing in this conversation. ( not great in efficiency tho)
Yep. They are not mentioned specifically for that reason they are quite basic and on par with a window mounted air conditioner the efficiency is quite poor. I wouldn't reccomend them.
@@richardc1983 like IR panels, for everything is a place and purpose, i agree it is not for heating permanent houses. I did learn from your explanation on the installers settings, thanks
@@vriesvakkie1 take a look at inverter always channel for some techy geek on HVAC!